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Feminism: Why Insane Radicals Shouldn't Be Allowed in the Club

I haven't posted in a few days, but it wasn't because I was striking (I'm still not even sure what that whole thing is about). I just didn't have much to say. But I do now.

This post was brought to my attention recently, and I'm really having a hard time keeping my mouth shut. For those of you who can't be arsed into reading it, basically this woman, a radical feminist, claims that Firefly is anti-feminist and that Joss Whedon is a rapist.

I'm sure you're expecting me to be up in arms over her insulting Joss or something, but honestly, I couldn't care less about that aspect of it. What I take issue with is her definition of rape:

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. [...] I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

As someone who was violently raped when she was eight years old, I am offended at her definition of rape. If "Oh, honey, not tonight...well, okay," is considered rape, then we're going to have to invent a whole new word for what happened to me and what happens to millions of other women around the world.

I posted a response to her post, but she has her journal set to screen comments until she chooses to unscreen them, so I am posting my reply here on this journal as well because I am so...unbelievably offended and angry right now that I feel like I have to do something.

Please know that while I am a Joss Whedon fan, I am not making this comment as someone who is trying to defend his work. I am making this comment as someone who was raped when she was eight years old by her older brother.

I won't go into the details of what happened to me, but it was violent, it was against my will, and though I tried to stop it, I couldn't. It was the most helpless and, more importantly, hopeless that I have ever felt in my life. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone in this world, man, woman, or gender neutral.

What happened to me was rape.

Your definition of rape:

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. There have been a few discussions recently in the rad fem blogosphere debating whether all male initiated sex is rape, given that women are politically, socially and economically subordinate to men. So, in my understanding of Joss Whedon as a rapist is hinges on my definition of rape. I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

While I respect that you have the right to believe this, I have to say that as someone who was a rape victim, I am offended by it.

There is a very large difference between what happened to me and the things that happen to other rape victims that are even worse, and "No, honey, not tonight…well, all right." Do you see the difference?

What your definition of rape does is trivialize what happened to me and other victims around the world. If that is rape, then you'd have to invent a whole new word for what happened to me.

I'm not going to try and persuade you to change your mind, because it seems quite clear that you have formed your own opinions and don't intend to change, but as a victim of rape, I am appalled and offended at your definition of rape, and the subsequent trivialization of my experience that it causes.

I'm not trying to start drama or whatever, but as someone who was a victim of sexual assault, I feel like...like I have to say something to this girl, or no one else will.

And what's more, she's saying that any male/female sex is rape, just by definition. And that it is impossible for a woman to love a man without it being degradation.

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

And don't even get me started on how she claims that no white man can be in a relationship with a black woman without abusing her. Racist, much?

The real gem is when she insists that Joss's wife must only be staying around for the money or "patriarchal concepts of love," but money isn't as important as, "self-integrity, self-esteem, love (sister/lesbian/gynaffectionate love), etc." She's basically saying that the only valid love is between two women, and that male/female love doesn't exist.

It's women like her that give actual feminism--which is about equality, not man-hating--a bad name.

I'm sorry, I realize this post is long and preachy, but as someone who is a victim of rape, I am offended and enraged by her comments, and I couldn't not say something about it.

P.S. I'm making this post public, because I'm not going to be accused of hiding behind a friendslock. If someone wants to argue with me, then bring it.

Edit: Hahaha! Looks like someone isn't above lolcating this cunt.

Edit #2:

dancinbutterfly's post about this chick can be found here. She addresses a lot of the things I didn't, and I highly recommend you check it out.

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it's one of those *slowly tilting head sideways, as if maybe brain at an angle makes people more comprehensible* "are you on crack?" moments. honestly, that's insane in a 'what the fuck is wrong with you' kind of way.

i mean, i don't even know where to start arguing. when a person like that is just soooo fucking stupid and crazy, where's the common ground that you can start a dialogue on?

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with feminism, because true feminism is about equality, and I very much support that. But this whole "women are better than men, we must separate ourselves from them, if you're not a lesbian, you're letting men oppress you" bullshit is just...GRAH.

There is a difference between lesbianism and feminism. One can be one without being the other. And it's insulting to both to imply that they're inseparable.

And it's insulting to those of us who have experienced true sexual assault to compare it to that whole, "not tonight...well, okay" thing.

Honestly, I just...I'm really freaking angry at this girl. My blood is practically boiling. She's insulting me and belittling my experience, and she's so batshit crazy that I can't argue with her rationally.

Argh.

P.S. You would be okay with a boy staying in our room, right? Because Annika and I have a guy friend who's considering going, and I thought I remembered you saying you were okay with having a guy roommate at Terminus. I wouldn't want to make you uncomfortable, though. :)

Word. That's all I have to say.

You know I agree with what you wrote, and I think you did a really good job of arguing your point in your comment to her without being wanky, it was a mature and passionate response. Also, I'm glad you addressed this issue with the original poster personally as well. You have guts!

I just...I'm still so angry. I'm all for equality for everyone, but...this chick is just batshit. Grah.

I need to like...punch something, because writing it out did not help at all. Hmph.

In my Gender Studies tutorial we were asked to raise our hand if we considered ourselves a feminist. Only two people raised their hands. I was not one of them, even though technically I am a feminist - as in, equal rights for men and women - an "equalist" if you will.

One of our tasks for the class each week is writing two questions that relate to the course reading, last week I submitted this question:

1. "[The] media depict feminists as puritanical, man-hating, obsessed with harassment and victimization, taking unfair advantage of men in the workplace and controlling men in their home." (Page 29 of the Gender Studies Reader).

Do you think that the media representation of feminists influenced the students' responses in last week's tutorial when asked if they considered themselves feminists?

Do you think that the negative stigma that Lindsey describes above is accurate?

--

People like the original poster are one of the reasons why only two people in my class of about 20 students (in a Gender Studies course which is pretty much all pro-feminism) would admit to being a feminist.

Grrr... you've got me angry now too. You've left this public, but are we allowed to link to it? (I've posted enough today, but I might later).

Exactly! I feel like I can't call myself a feminist because I don't agree with this batshit crazy person. I am for equality for everyone. Man, woman, gay, straight, white, black, and everything in between. We're all human beings and should be treated as such. Plain and simple. And then people like this woman go and fuck it up for the rest of us, and we can't admit to what we really are for being associated with insane people. Grah!

Yes, link away. I'm so mad! I want people to get into a discussion about this. I want people to get mad and angry and inspired to do something. Because it's just not right. It's just not.

Came here via a link (from dancingbutterfly's post) and I agree with this comment entirely.

I think your comment to her was amazingly mature and level-headed, given the nature of the things she says in her post and your own experiences. Well done.

Good god, I feel bad for you. When I read her post, that bit made me go "wtf" like everything else in there, but it never occurred to me how trivialising she was being to those who've actually been raped.

I agree with everything you're saying. Feminism is about equality, not hating men. People who think that are just as whacked as those who think men are somehow better.

Thumbs-up for this post. I hear you.

First of all, I am sorry that such a horrible thing happened to you and I am glad that you are a true feminist and have overcome that event and grown into a strong young adult. Unfortunately, things of that nature happen all too often and the horrors are no less because the actions are more common place than they should be.

While I absolutely completely agree with your overall assessment of this person and her rants, I have to disagree that being talked into or verbally forced into having sex isn't horrible. It is not always within a long-term relationship ("No, honey, not tonight...") but can be by complete strangers, friends, or significant others. As someone who went through that herself, I do not label it "rape" since rape is defined (by Merriam Webster) as "to seize and take away by force; to despoil" and force usually implies physical force. However, that shouldn't devalue or take away from the legitimacy of wrongness involved in being verbally convinced to take part in something one really does not want any part in.

I do not think this woman has any basis for most of her arguments, but I did want to express my opinion on how strongly I feel about being used and hurt in a physical, emotional, and sexual capacity. Although I was never physically restrained, being verbally forced into having sex hurt, confused, and broke me.

Luckily, now, I have moved past that and am in a place where I can defend myself much better. I hope if the situation ever occurs again, I will be both physically and emotionally strong enough to fend off harmful events.

Thank you. :)

Don't feel bad for me, really. If you want to feel bad for someone, feel bad for that chick, because clearly she needs to be in a mental hospital and this is all a desperate cry for help.

Feminism is about equality, not hating men. People who think that are just as whacked as those who think men are somehow better.

Exactly. I mean, how is what she's doing any different than the people who say that male/male and female/female love isn't valid? Or the men who (I grant her, there are still many men in this world that view themselves as superior to women) say that women should be inferior?

What she's doing is no different, and she's hiding behind feminism as if that makes it somehow okay. But what she's doing isn't true feminism and she's giving the rest of us who are out there practicing true feminism a bad name.

*headdesk* She's crazy, end of story. That's really the only way I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Umm, wow. I didn't really know that about your past. It must be really frustrating to see how people misuse the word rape all the time. I know it bothers me.

As for this woman? I wouldn't give her a second thought, she's obviously can turn anything into a "Why men suck, and poor women are being abused" argument. I mean, I haven't even gotten to the stuff about rape yet, and I think I have a headache from all the eye rolling I've done. She's just ridicuous!

The part that got me, that made me stop reading, was the bit about how Inara has no reason to become a prostitute, but must like the pretty clothes so puts up with being raped. And then she goes on to how she "services" the people on the ships emotional needs, and never gets paid for it (except from Kaylee, who is the only one who reciprocates). Because obviously, you should be paid for being a *friend* to the people around you. *head desk* Also:
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, Joss uses his own wife in this way. Expects her to clean up his emotional messes.
Umm, because that's not what people do in relationships, you know, share emotional problems, and et comfort from loved ones....

I'm not saying that being pressured into sex isn't a bad thing. That's not really my issue. Having never had it happen to me, I can't really have a personal opinion on it. But calling it "rape," is just...so wrong. Rape is violent and forceful and completely without a choice, and this chick is trying to make it sound as though any man who wants to have intercourse with his wife at any time is raping her, even if she consents.

But by making the definition so broad, it trivializes the experience that so many people (women and men) have had to go through. It's like if someone punches someone on the arm, and calls it murder. Big, big difference there.

And that's not to say that being punched doesn't hurt, and it isn't a bad thing that shouldn't have happened, but it's not "murder."

This metaphor sucks, so I'm just going to shut up. *headdesk*

Really? Sorry, I thought everyone on my friendslist knew. It was my older step-brother the summer before I turned 9. It happened more than once, but I've kind of blocked most of it out of my memory (one of those Freudian self-defense things or whatever), so I don't think about it too often. But still, it hurts to have it belittled, which is exactly what this chick is doing.

I know. I got so angry that I went back and read some of her older entries, and she had a rant in there about how she was never going to speak to a man again because she was at a lesbian bar with some of her lesbian friends and one straight friend who had brought her boyfriend with her, and during the course of the evening, someone joked that the guy was "a dickhead," and this insane chick jumped into their conversation to say, "Most men are." To which the guy got offended and said, "Yeah? Well, most women are bitches." Because somehow, saying that, when she had just insulted his entire gender for no apparent reason, makes him an asshole. *eyeroll* God, get over yourself, girl!

Yeah, I know. What really bugs me about her Inara rant is that Inara's job was her own choice. She worked her ass off to become a companion, and at one point during the series, she's offered a chance to quit being a companion, and she chooses to keep that job. She's proud of who she is and what she does.

And this gal is...trying to take away Inara's choices. If being a Companion is what makes Inara happy, then shouldn't she be allowed to do it? Isn't the freedom of a choice a key element to true feminism? I mean, it's right there in their sexual freedom thing: PRO-CHOICE. So either way, this gal's being a hypocrite. And all right, fine, maybe this chick is never going to see it that way, but I love how she conveniently forgets that Inara also takes on female clients. So even ignoring everything I just said, it's not only men "oppressing" Inara.

I know. It's like she doesn't believe that men are human beings capable of love. GRAH! *eyeroll*

This chick is the reason women like me refuse to call themselves "feminist." Because the true spirit of it has been lost to gals like her.

That makes me so mad... I can't quite form sentences right now... what the ... agh! *incomprehensible noises*

I know. You have no idea how mad I was last night. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything except...growl a lot. ARGH!

I imagine you did. That's... what a fuckface.

Makes me NOT want to take that feminist theory class next fall... hm. Just in case there are a crowd of nutcases in there... but then again, maybe that's why I should.

With any luck, it'll be about actual feminism instead of...that insane babble.

I'm just going to call myself an equalist from now on to avoid confusion. Equality for everyone, end of story. *nods*

I think I like that better... equalist. *nods in agreement*

We should start a movement. There could be a manifesto! Mission statements! A website!

*snicker* you give us the website and we'll be in business :-)

That's just insane. I don't call myself a feminist but I doubt any feminists would be proud to call her one of them. People like that give the human race a bad name.

You've got every right to be upset and offended. Fuck, I'm offended and I'm not of the majority who is being trivialized there.

"Radical feminism"? Oh please. People need to stop inventing shit just to justify their stupid bullshit.

I know. It's so...insane.

Mandi and I have decided to invent a new movement. We are the equalists! We're going to sweep the planet! Manifestos! Mission statements! WEBSITES!

Coming soon to a protest march near you. *nods*

Really? Sorry, I thought everyone on my friendslist knew.
It's nothing to apologize about! And I knew, or at least thought, you had been raped, but I didn't know the details, I had just run across references, like when you made that speech about it, but never heard you come out and say it, that I can remember (but I go through bouts of abandoning LJ, so you might have said, and I missed). It's just... it's not one of those things you really ask about, you know? I wouldn't even know how.

But still, it hurts to have it belittled, which is exactly what this chick is doing.
God, she's just not worth getting hurt over. I mean, while she was really belittling rape victims, and black women, she's really belittling *all* women, by making us out to be weak and stupid and easily swayed by men and society. You know, all those *billions* of women, just sitting back and being raped (because she seems to consider all heterosexual sex rape). She has absolutely no concepts of what the real world is like.

Because somehow, saying that, when she had just insulted his entire gender for no apparent reason, makes him an asshole.
*God* and you just know that he didn't really mean it, but had said it to be facetious. She is sooo dense.

she chooses to keep that job. She's proud of who she is and what she does.
And this gal is...trying to take away Inara's choices.
And that is another reason I don't consider myself a feminist. It's like, you have to be a certain *kind* of woman to count. Personally? My job of choice would be to be a stay at home mom. I would like nothing better than to get married, have a boat load of children and become Suzie Homemaker. What do you think this person would have to say to that, eh? I agree that choice should be the very foundation of feminism, you should be free to make whatever choices you want, but for some reason, it's not. I'm with you, we should just forget about feminism, and all become equalist. Then, it covers even more than just males and females, it covers ethnicity, sexuality and nationalism.

I know. It's like she doesn't believe that men are human beings capable of love. GRAH! *eyeroll*
You know, I think that's really what it comes down to for her. The fact that she thought the others on Firefly should *pay* Inara to be her friend shows that she's just not willing to give an inch without something in return. I'm sure she lives a very lonely existence.

Really, I don't mind talking about it. I used to be really hush-hush about it, but...what happened is part of who I am, you know? I mean, whether I wanted it or not, it's shaped who I am as a person, and I think that having gone through it and made it through to the other side intact has made me a stronger person than I would've been had it not happened. So now I'm okay with talking about it, because yeah, it sucked, but it's a part of who I am and I'm not going to hide any part of me because I'm supposed to be ashamed of it or whatever.

I know. I mean, hey, I joke sometimes that I see everyone as inherently bisexual, but the truth of the matter is, heterosexuality is important for the procreation of the species. The human race needs male/female relationships to survive. We're biologically wired that way. So the only thing I can assume is that she's trying to say that most women are genetically wired to be rape victims, in which case she's belittling her entire gender. *eyeroll*

What I'm most proud of is that as a woman, I have choice. And if I choose to become like...a doctor, great. But if I choose to do something that wouldn't be considered "feminist," then that's fine, too, because it's my choice. Yes, in the real world, most women in prostitution would rather have a different job. But in Firefly's world, A) it's set in the future when things have changed and B) it's a whole different set of rules governing the relationship between Companion/Buyer. Inara's job is her choice, and it's one that she's damn proud of. Not only that, but in the "class system," out of the nine main characters, she's second only to Simon & River, who were born extremely wealthy. Companions are held in extremely high regard in this world, and it's Inara's choice to be one. If that's what she chooses, then more power to her, you know? Rock on, Inara. You rock the fuck on.

Mandi and I were joking that we were going to start an "equalist" movement complete with manifestos, mission statements, and a website. Heh.

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Feminism: Why Insane Radicals Shouldn't Be Allowed in the Club

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