guest_age: (GEN | Queerocity | "Gay rights.")
[personal profile] guest_age
I haven't posted in a few days, but it wasn't because I was striking (I'm still not even sure what that whole thing is about). I just didn't have much to say. But I do now.

This post was brought to my attention recently, and I'm really having a hard time keeping my mouth shut. For those of you who can't be arsed into reading it, basically this woman, a radical feminist, claims that Firefly is anti-feminist and that Joss Whedon is a rapist.

I'm sure you're expecting me to be up in arms over her insulting Joss or something, but honestly, I couldn't care less about that aspect of it. What I take issue with is her definition of rape:

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. [...] I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

As someone who was violently raped when she was eight years old, I am offended at her definition of rape. If "Oh, honey, not tonight...well, okay," is considered rape, then we're going to have to invent a whole new word for what happened to me and what happens to millions of other women around the world.

I posted a response to her post, but she has her journal set to screen comments until she chooses to unscreen them, so I am posting my reply here on this journal as well because I am so...unbelievably offended and angry right now that I feel like I have to do something.

Please know that while I am a Joss Whedon fan, I am not making this comment as someone who is trying to defend his work. I am making this comment as someone who was raped when she was eight years old by her older brother.

I won't go into the details of what happened to me, but it was violent, it was against my will, and though I tried to stop it, I couldn't. It was the most helpless and, more importantly, hopeless that I have ever felt in my life. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone in this world, man, woman, or gender neutral.

What happened to me was rape.

Your definition of rape:

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. There have been a few discussions recently in the rad fem blogosphere debating whether all male initiated sex is rape, given that women are politically, socially and economically subordinate to men. So, in my understanding of Joss Whedon as a rapist is hinges on my definition of rape. I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

While I respect that you have the right to believe this, I have to say that as someone who was a rape victim, I am offended by it.

There is a very large difference between what happened to me and the things that happen to other rape victims that are even worse, and "No, honey, not tonight…well, all right." Do you see the difference?

What your definition of rape does is trivialize what happened to me and other victims around the world. If that is rape, then you'd have to invent a whole new word for what happened to me.

I'm not going to try and persuade you to change your mind, because it seems quite clear that you have formed your own opinions and don't intend to change, but as a victim of rape, I am appalled and offended at your definition of rape, and the subsequent trivialization of my experience that it causes.

I'm not trying to start drama or whatever, but as someone who was a victim of sexual assault, I feel I have to say something to this girl, or no one else will.

And what's more, she's saying that any male/female sex is rape, just by definition. And that it is impossible for a woman to love a man without it being degradation.

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

And don't even get me started on how she claims that no white man can be in a relationship with a black woman without abusing her. Racist, much?

The real gem is when she insists that Joss's wife must only be staying around for the money or "patriarchal concepts of love," but money isn't as important as, "self-integrity, self-esteem, love (sister/lesbian/gynaffectionate love), etc." She's basically saying that the only valid love is between two women, and that male/female love doesn't exist.

It's women like her that give actual feminism--which is about equality, not man-hating--a bad name.

I'm sorry, I realize this post is long and preachy, but as someone who is a victim of rape, I am offended and enraged by her comments, and I couldn't not say something about it.

P.S. I'm making this post public, because I'm not going to be accused of hiding behind a friendslock. If someone wants to argue with me, then bring it.

Edit: Hahaha! Looks like someone isn't above lolcating this cunt.

Edit #2: [ profile] dancinbutterfly's post about this chick can be found here. She addresses a lot of the things I didn't, and I highly recommend you check it out.

Date: 2008-03-26 06:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
it's one of those *slowly tilting head sideways, as if maybe brain at an angle makes people more comprehensible* "are you on crack?" moments. honestly, that's insane in a 'what the fuck is wrong with you' kind of way.

i mean, i don't even know where to start arguing. when a person like that is just soooo fucking stupid and crazy, where's the common ground that you can start a dialogue on?

Date: 2008-03-26 06:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]

There is nothing wrong with feminism, because true feminism is about equality, and I very much support that. But this whole "women are better than men, we must separate ourselves from them, if you're not a lesbian, you're letting men oppress you" bullshit is just...GRAH.

There is a difference between lesbianism and feminism. One can be one without being the other. And it's insulting to both to imply that they're inseparable.

And it's insulting to those of us who have experienced true sexual assault to compare it to that whole, "not tonight...well, okay" thing.

Honestly, I just...I'm really freaking angry at this girl. My blood is practically boiling. She's insulting me and belittling my experience, and she's so batshit crazy that I can't argue with her rationally.


P.S. You would be okay with a boy staying in our room, right? Because Annika and I have a guy friend who's considering going, and I thought I remembered you saying you were okay with having a guy roommate at Terminus. I wouldn't want to make you uncomfortable, though. :)

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Date: 2008-03-26 06:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Word. That's all I have to say.

You know I agree with what you wrote, and I think you did a really good job of arguing your point in your comment to her without being wanky, it was a mature and passionate response. Also, I'm glad you addressed this issue with the original poster personally as well. You have guts!

Date: 2008-03-26 06:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I just...I'm still so angry. I'm all for equality for everyone, but...this chick is just batshit. Grah.

I need to like...punch something, because writing it out did not help at all. Hmph.

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Date: 2008-03-26 09:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Came here via a link (from dancingbutterfly's post) and I agree with this comment entirely.

I think your comment to her was amazingly mature and level-headed, given the nature of the things she says in her post and your own experiences. Well done.

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Date: 2008-03-26 12:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Good god, I feel bad for you. When I read her post, that bit made me go "wtf" like everything else in there, but it never occurred to me how trivialising she was being to those who've actually been raped.

I agree with everything you're saying. Feminism is about equality, not hating men. People who think that are just as whacked as those who think men are somehow better.

Thumbs-up for this post. I hear you.

Date: 2008-03-26 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Don't feel bad for me, really. If you want to feel bad for someone, feel bad for that chick, because clearly she needs to be in a mental hospital and this is all a desperate cry for help.

Feminism is about equality, not hating men. People who think that are just as whacked as those who think men are somehow better.

Exactly. I mean, how is what she's doing any different than the people who say that male/male and female/female love isn't valid? Or the men who (I grant her, there are still many men in this world that view themselves as superior to women) say that women should be inferior?

What she's doing is no different, and she's hiding behind feminism as if that makes it somehow okay. But what she's doing isn't true feminism and she's giving the rest of us who are out there practicing true feminism a bad name.

*headdesk* She's crazy, end of story. That's really the only way I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Date: 2008-03-26 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
First of all, I am sorry that such a horrible thing happened to you and I am glad that you are a true feminist and have overcome that event and grown into a strong young adult. Unfortunately, things of that nature happen all too often and the horrors are no less because the actions are more common place than they should be.

While I absolutely completely agree with your overall assessment of this person and her rants, I have to disagree that being talked into or verbally forced into having sex isn't horrible. It is not always within a long-term relationship ("No, honey, not tonight...") but can be by complete strangers, friends, or significant others. As someone who went through that herself, I do not label it "rape" since rape is defined (by Merriam Webster) as "to seize and take away by force; to despoil" and force usually implies physical force. However, that shouldn't devalue or take away from the legitimacy of wrongness involved in being verbally convinced to take part in something one really does not want any part in.

I do not think this woman has any basis for most of her arguments, but I did want to express my opinion on how strongly I feel about being used and hurt in a physical, emotional, and sexual capacity. Although I was never physically restrained, being verbally forced into having sex hurt, confused, and broke me.

Luckily, now, I have moved past that and am in a place where I can defend myself much better. I hope if the situation ever occurs again, I will be both physically and emotionally strong enough to fend off harmful events.

Date: 2008-03-26 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm not saying that being pressured into sex isn't a bad thing. That's not really my issue. Having never had it happen to me, I can't really have a personal opinion on it. But calling it "rape," is wrong. Rape is violent and forceful and completely without a choice, and this chick is trying to make it sound as though any man who wants to have intercourse with his wife at any time is raping her, even if she consents.

But by making the definition so broad, it trivializes the experience that so many people (women and men) have had to go through. It's like if someone punches someone on the arm, and calls it murder. Big, big difference there.

And that's not to say that being punched doesn't hurt, and it isn't a bad thing that shouldn't have happened, but it's not "murder."

This metaphor sucks, so I'm just going to shut up. *headdesk*

Date: 2008-03-26 04:36 pm (UTC)
paraka: Rodney with the caption "*headdesk* (SGA-M-*head desk*)
From: [personal profile] paraka
Umm, wow. I didn't really know that about your past. It must be really frustrating to see how people misuse the word rape all the time. I know it bothers me.

As for this woman? I wouldn't give her a second thought, she's obviously can turn anything into a "Why men suck, and poor women are being abused" argument. I mean, I haven't even gotten to the stuff about rape yet, and I think I have a headache from all the eye rolling I've done. She's just ridicuous!

The part that got me, that made me stop reading, was the bit about how Inara has no reason to become a prostitute, but must like the pretty clothes so puts up with being raped. And then she goes on to how she "services" the people on the ships emotional needs, and never gets paid for it (except from Kaylee, who is the only one who reciprocates). Because obviously, you should be paid for being a *friend* to the people around you. *head desk* Also:
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, Joss uses his own wife in this way. Expects her to clean up his emotional messes.
Umm, because that's not what people do in relationships, you know, share emotional problems, and et comfort from loved ones....

Date: 2008-03-26 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Really? Sorry, I thought everyone on my friendslist knew. It was my older step-brother the summer before I turned 9. It happened more than once, but I've kind of blocked most of it out of my memory (one of those Freudian self-defense things or whatever), so I don't think about it too often. But still, it hurts to have it belittled, which is exactly what this chick is doing.

I know. I got so angry that I went back and read some of her older entries, and she had a rant in there about how she was never going to speak to a man again because she was at a lesbian bar with some of her lesbian friends and one straight friend who had brought her boyfriend with her, and during the course of the evening, someone joked that the guy was "a dickhead," and this insane chick jumped into their conversation to say, "Most men are." To which the guy got offended and said, "Yeah? Well, most women are bitches." Because somehow, saying that, when she had just insulted his entire gender for no apparent reason, makes him an asshole. *eyeroll* God, get over yourself, girl!

Yeah, I know. What really bugs me about her Inara rant is that Inara's job was her own choice. She worked her ass off to become a companion, and at one point during the series, she's offered a chance to quit being a companion, and she chooses to keep that job. She's proud of who she is and what she does.

And this gal is...trying to take away Inara's choices. If being a Companion is what makes Inara happy, then shouldn't she be allowed to do it? Isn't the freedom of a choice a key element to true feminism? I mean, it's right there in their sexual freedom thing: PRO-CHOICE. So either way, this gal's being a hypocrite. And all right, fine, maybe this chick is never going to see it that way, but I love how she conveniently forgets that Inara also takes on female clients. So even ignoring everything I just said, it's not only men "oppressing" Inara.

I know. It's like she doesn't believe that men are human beings capable of love. GRAH! *eyeroll*

This chick is the reason women like me refuse to call themselves "feminist." Because the true spirit of it has been lost to gals like her.

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Date: 2008-03-26 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That makes me so mad... I can't quite form sentences right now... what the ... agh! *incomprehensible noises*

Date: 2008-03-26 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I know. You have no idea how mad I was last night. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything except...growl a lot. ARGH!

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Date: 2008-03-26 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That's just insane. I don't call myself a feminist but I doubt any feminists would be proud to call her one of them. People like that give the human race a bad name.

You've got every right to be upset and offended. Fuck, I'm offended and I'm not of the majority who is being trivialized there.

"Radical feminism"? Oh please. People need to stop inventing shit just to justify their stupid bullshit.

Date: 2008-03-26 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I know. It's so...insane.

Mandi and I have decided to invent a new movement. We are the equalists! We're going to sweep the planet! Manifestos! Mission statements! WEBSITES!

Coming soon to a protest march near you. *nods*

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Date: 2008-03-27 07:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I came here to let you know how much I appreciated seeing your comment on that post. I didn't feel it appropriate to reply to you there as my opinions would fall in the category of those the OP finds "banworthy". (Unfortunately I know a few very decent males, thus am unable to indiscriminately hate the entire gender. My bad.) In particular, that trivialisation of violent rape is something I find very offensive as well, so...yeah. *cough* Appreciated.

Date: 2008-03-27 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Thanks. I doubt she'd have unscreened your comment, anyway. She seems to be only unscreening those who agree with her, or those who ask her a direct question that she wants to respond to. I'm honestly surprised mine made the cut. *eyeroll*

Date: 2008-03-27 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I saw your comment on her post (and was somewhat surprised, but pleased that she actually unscreened it, though I notice that she didn't bother replying).

Anyway, I cruised over to your journal to thank you for sharing a difficult part of yourself to make a point. I don't know if it will do any good for the OP, but perhaps some of the people who are agreeing with her will see it and think twice.

Date: 2008-03-27 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Same here. Good job and getting in a comment that actually challenges her misandrist worldview (which hurts both genders).

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Date: 2008-03-27 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, I'm surprised she unscreened it, too. Most of the ones she's unscreened have been ones that agree with her, so it really shocks me that she unscreened mine. A reply might've been nice. I'd like to see what she has to say to defend her definition to someone who's been through the real thing. But I digress.

Date: 2008-03-27 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hell yeah! I nominate you head of the club so we can kick out this wanker. She's not a feminist, she's a sexist pig. An insensitive, self-important, sexist pig. Who stepped on the toes of anyone who has actually experienced the suffering she trivializes. Or those who might, you know, enjoy heterosexual penetrative sex (omg, they could even be the same people!) BUT GOD FORBID it be with a woman of color. ::SEETHES::

Thank you for calling her out on her privileged BS. Because that's what it is. Someone assuming they've got the sis-tah pow-ah that allows them to declare feminism is what they say it is. God.

Date: 2008-03-27 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I know, exactly! I mean, I like girls as much as the next person. I find them sexy, I've been in a relationship with one, and so on and so forth. But at the same time, I've also been in relationships with men that I hold just as equal. We're all people, honestly! We should all be working towards equality, not glorifying one gender over the other. It's maddening.

Date: 2008-03-30 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I wandered past the post in question and your reply restored my faith in human sanity. The fact that some people were actively agreeing with her barking mad propaganda made want to weep.

Thanks for replying to her - people who cry 'rape' at absolutely everything really do women no favours.

Date: 2008-03-30 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
people who cry 'rape' at absolutely everything really do women no favours

Exactly. It's stuff like this that makes it hard to get a conviction on the real thing. *sigh*

Date: 2008-03-30 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]

I just wanted to thank you so, so much for what you said on that woman's journal. I reacted exactly the same way to her definition of rape, but couldn't bring myself to get into a flame war with her, particularly because -- much as I hate to say this -- I felt that, not having been a victim of rape, I didn't have any right to. You very eloquently said everything I wanted to say to a woman with a medieval arrow-slit for a brain, and I'm grateful for it. I'm so sorry for what you had to live through, but I want you to know how much I admire the fact that, in spite of that, you'll point out a vicious, irrational spew-fest for what it is. Frankly, you rock.

And I'm so sharing that macro with the world.

Date: 2008-04-04 05:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
My reply ( was far less elegant. I was so upset my boyfriend practically had to pry me from the laptop and then I was a nervous wreck the rest of the night.

So thank you, for at least saying it in a way that made her unscreen it (she's now gone 'friend's only' reply to comments, so also thank you for writing it in time).

Date: 2008-04-04 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, me, too. I was just so...unbelievably angry at her.

I read through some of the other comments, and you and I weren't the only ones who brought this point up to her. And the few she did deign to reply to, she basically told them to fuck off and complain about it on their own journals, without ever addressing the actual issue.

If you think about it, that's kind of even more insulting than what she did in the first place. Not only is she saying, "I'm going to trivialize what happened to you," she's also adding, "And I'm not even going to give you a decent explanation of why I feel that way in the first place." I also believe there's an undertone of, "Neener neener neener," in there somewhere, too.

Point being, the best thing we can do is just ignore her, because clearly she's clinically insane. (If she's allowed to make broad statements about me and my experiences, then I'm damn well going to do the same to her.)

Date: 2008-06-04 10:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I would opine that the author of this would probably be someone who finds reasons to blame people for their rape experiences. I wonder what the author thinks of the rape of males? As she has already stated that she HATES the male gender, I would suspect that she is of the mind that men "can't be raped".

My point being that I seriously doubt she cares even slightly for the trivialization of textbook-definition rape her broad feminist generalized use of the word creates. There is clearly a certain type of human - many types, in fact - that she has absolutely no respect for, even on the most basic human level.


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